[BDSM-LegalIssues] Re: New book -- good but disturbing
Geeze, I wrote this 3 days ago at the beginning of this discussion and
it just now shows up from Yahoo Hell I suppose... nobody respond...
we've talked this issue to death... Tatu
--- In BDSM-LegalIssues@
>
> Let me weigh in here as someone who does background investigations.
I am a PI and own a licensed investigative agency. You hit the nail on
the head, you can ask anything you want, it is what is done with the
information that can run into problems. Your citation of the laws,
rules are right on target.
>
> I will give you an examples from my experiences. I do background
checks / interviews. One of them is for a very large security company.
I do not work as an employee, but as an independent contractor with my
own agency. They do this so as to avoid conflicts of interest in doing
their own checks internally, a very smart business decision. I have
done literally 1000's of these checks. Further we do not make any
hiring recommendations, but simply write up a report about the
interview and the checks with former employers, etc. I will however
indicate if the candidate was untruthful on his application about
anything (past employment, education, criminal history, etc... or if
s/he lied in the interview itself. This is an automatic rejection.
>
> In the security industry for example information about arrests and
convictions is important. There are basically two or three issues this
type of employer is interested in.
>
> 1) Issues of Dishonesty..
safe) They do hire people with criminal history all the time, just not
where it involved a crime of dishonesty or violence.
>
> 2) Punctuality.
relieve the guy at the gatehouse, no point of hiring you. The job is
that simple. Show up, be courteous, "observe and report".
>
> 3) Criminal History. (In my state you can't get a license as a
security guard or to carry a firearm if you have certain issues with
arrests and convictions. It will vary state to state. So in this case
you can't get hired if you have a criminal history with specific
issues, because you can't get the licenses required by the state. So
the issue is simple but also very legal. This is true of a number of
professions which require licensing by the state. And as you said sex
offenders can't work for daycares, public schools, etc...
>
> No Dui's in the past 5 years is ok. However a bad driving record,
in ordinate number of traffic tickets, etc, could disqualify you or
they might hire you and send you to traffic school, before they let
you drive one of their security vehicles.
>
> I can tell you what any employer probably does if he wants to not
hire someone because of a criminal history... they will either use
the fact that they lied about something on their application, not the
fact that they had a criminal history, but simply that they lied about
it; or they will find another candidate and state so that they found
someone more suitable for their position and the criminal history will
never be at issue, much less mentioned.
>
> What the author said in Jay's original post has merit. Don't get
arrested in the first place.
>
> But if you have, be honest about it. If someone is going to hold
some stupid thing you did as a kid against you, I wouldn't want to
work for that person anyway.
>
> As for Jays question, I do think it is disturbing to wholesale
reject all people who have ever been arrested or have a criminal
history of any kind. However is some cases it is perfectly legitimate
and understandable.
>
> Tatu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Abacus <Abacus22@..
following this thread with interest. But can I make a
> clarification?
>
> With the exception of some disability related questions
specifically barred
> under the Americans with Disabilities Act, there are no illegal
questions.
> It's what you do with the answers that may be illegal.
>
> For example. If I'm a private employer (as opposed to faith based
NFP). I
> could ask you if you were Catholic, and that would not be illegal.
However,
> if I made my hiring decision based on that, it WOULD be illegal
under Title
> VII of the Civil Rights Act. Of course asking such questions leave
you wide
> open to the accusation that religion was a deciding factor when you
chose
> not to hire them, even if it wasn't. So it's generally considered a bad
> practice to ask certain questions.
>
> Regarding arrest and/or conviction related questions: It is NOT
illegal to
> ask, it's what you do with the information. And the laws regarding
hiring or
> not, based upon arrest or conviction records is very state
specific. For
> example, some states have regulations barring making adverse employment
> decisions based upon convictions UNLESS its directly related to the
> employment. Example: Felony theft being hired as a bank teller, sex
offender
> working at a day care. But some states have no such restrictions. And
> governmental agency regs, such as DOT, may be a factor as well.
>
> So I just wanted to make the clarification, it's not the asking,
it's the
> making an adverse employment decision based upon that information.
>
> From: BDSM-LegalIssues@
> [mailto:BDSM-LegalIssues@
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:31 AM
> To: BDSM-LegalIssues@
> Subject: Re: [BDSM-LegalIssues] Re: New book -- good but disturbing
>
> There is a very large difference between an Arrest record and a
Conviction
> record. AFIK it is illegal for an ordinary employer to ask about arrest
> before hiring.
>
> You could have been arrested because your name is John Smith and
there was a
> warrant for a different John Smith for child molesting. But until
they have
> booked you and say sent your fingerprints off, they don't know you
are the
> wrong John Smith. However you now have an arrest on your record and
guess
> what for! This is what the question is about.
>
> If you want off a jury just tell the judge they wouldn't have
arrested him
> unless he was guilty.
>
> On 12/29/07 9:29 AM, "Jay Wiseman" <jaywiseman@
> <mailto:jaywiseman%
>
> > --- In BDSM-LegalIssues@
> <mailto:BDSM-
> > <leigha@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Apparently, companies can purchase access to the National
> > Criminal
> >>> Information Center (NCIC) databases and can now "run" somebody as
> >>> part of routine pre-employment or ongoing screening, and if an
> >>> employee pops up as ever having been arrested, out they go (or in
> >>> they never get).
> >>> Bothers me, this does.
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>> Best,
> >>> Jay
> >>
> >> I don't know if it bothers me that much. I've conducted employment
> > screening including criminal history and background checks
> >> for years where I work. It's been my experience that it's just good
> > business.
> >>
> >> Leigha
> >
> > As I stated in my original post, according to the author of "Arrest-
> > proof Yourself" many corporations have quietly adopted a policy of
> > either not hiring or discreetly firing people who have ever been
> > arrested. This has the real-world effect of closing such people off
> > from many relatively high-end positions.
> >
> > (Note: I am *not* -- repeat: not -- talking about people who lied
> > upon employment application forms, so let's please not go down that
> > irrelevant and distracting side-issue.)
> >
> > The author labels the result of this practice as sending such people
> > to the "electronic plantation" of low-end, low-paying jobs, where
> > they very well may spend the rest of their working lives, regardless
> > of their education and past work history.
> >
> > Are you honestly saying this corporate policy doesn't bother you and
> > that in your opinion such a practice is "just good business"?
> >
> > Given your very prominent association with NCSF, I'm most eagerly
> > awaiting your on-list reply.
> >
> > Most sincerely,
> >
> > Jay Wiseman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
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> >
>
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posted by Annja Sue at
6:54 PM
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