RE: [BDSM-LegalIssues] A little quote from the book that was mentioned at the start.
At 12:17 PM 1/10/2008, Malcolm Weir wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vicki
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:20 AM
>
> > >(Plus the US Government cares about the fact of arrests, for
> > >good reason).
> >
> > The Government is required to treat people as "innocent until
> > proven guilty in a court of law".
> > We as individuals and groups are NOT required to do this
> > except perhaps when we are serving on a Jury.
>
>You're correst in as much as the govermment in the context of the criminal
>justice system must treat people as innocent until proven guilty.
I do note that the DA has to approach the situation with the attempt
to prove guilt but
should still keep in mind the "defendant" might be innocent.
>But you're not correct if you think that the government cannot treat people
>who have been arrested differently from those who have not.
Agreed.
>An example of that would be the immigration system (which Cadenas will get
>up on some soapbox declaiming that it's not a good example because he
>doesn't like it). Another would be the SBI/SSBI process for security
>clearances (SF86 forms and all that).
immigrants seem to be outside Constitutional protections since they
are not citizens.
I am not sure I like this idea but that is the common practice as you
noted above.
Security Clearances are all about possibilities.
>And the reasons for that are explained by a link provided by Charmaine ("Our
>Favorite Victim") right at the start:
>http://www.llrx.
>
>In order to get the definitive record, you have to go to the specific court
>involved. And that takes time and costs money (which I'm pretty certain
>Cadenas will decline to pay for).
From the book mentioned at the beginning as well we have
============
This is the lifetime restriction of obs and opportunities that
derives from the instant accessibility of arrest
information. Increasing use of background checks and wide spread
access to the NCIC (Fed Gov
database of every arrest made in the United States and its
territories means that the record of your
arrest follows you around for life.
( Introduction: Page 4 last paragraph.)
============
So this statement goes directly against a statement in the article at
http://www.llrx.
"
There is no such thing as a national criminal records check. There is
one "nationwide" criminal database, the FBI database, which is known
as the NCIC (National Crime Information Center). The FBI database is
NOT public record and cannot be legally accessed by anyone other than
criminal justice agencies. There are strict penalties for
unauthorized access to this data, and there are penalties for buying
information that is illegally obtained. In spite of the fact that
unauthorized access to NCIC is illegal, there is an enormous black
market for this information. The information is often obtained by
individuals who were formerly in law enforcement and who have a "good
old boy" network of associates who have access to NCIC. And, even if
FBI records were available as public record, it would not be possible
to obtain a true nationwide criminal search without submitting a
fingerprint card, as Interstate Identification Index (the
non-fingerprint NCIC database) only receives data from twenty two states."
So interesting. Ex police officer or president of a business who
specializes in public records research.
The article published in 2001 or the book published in 2007. Each
has reasons for their position and each
has demonstrable knowledge to support their position. Laws
change. NCIC may be easier to access now.
It may get date from more than 22 states.
------------
http://www.fbi.
"NCIC 2000 provides a major upgrade to those services provided by
NCIC, and extends these services down to the patrol car and mobile officer."
------------
Note that the expansion matches descriptions in the book about
officers in patrol cars being able to access
these records.
------------
The FBI maintains the host computer while providing a
telecommunication network to the CJIS Systems Agency (CSA) in each of
the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin
Islands, Guam, and Canada, as well as federal criminal justice agencies.
http://www.fbi.
------------
Note that the coverage is listed as all 50 states and
territories. This matches the book but does NOT match
the article.
The article states that the records are not public. The book does
not state that they are but claims
that lots of people that we might not consider "authorized" seem to
have access.
> > In my opinion we as a society will be much better if we do
> > tend to treat people as "innocent until proven guilty in a
> > court of law". But to quote an ancient saying YMMV.
>
>You may be right. But you can't legislate it, no matter what you'd like,
>unless you're prepared to do damage to that Freedom of Association thing...
Never tried to legislate it.
Disagree with you that it would damage the Freedom of Association thing.
If we passed a law that magically made everyone treat people as
innocent till proven guilty
has no bearing on wether or not we choose to associate with them.
We get to associate with them or not "Just because". See Freedom of
Association thing.
We may think they are guilty as sin and the law may magically make us
think (a demonstrably
impossible task) that they are innocent till proven guilty but it
does not and need not require
us to associate with them even if such a law could exist.
-Vicki-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Post message: BDSM-LegalIssues@onelist.com
Subscribe: BDSM-LegalIssues-subscribe@onelist.com
Unsubscribe: BDSM-LegalIssues-unsubscribe@onelist.com
List owner: BDSM-LegalIssues-owner@onelist.com
Shortcut URL to this page:
http://www.onelist.com/community/BDSM-LegalIssues
Earn your degree in as few as 2 years - Advance your career with an AS, BS, MS degree - College-Finder.net.
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___
posted by Annja Sue at
5:20 PM
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home