RE: [BDSM-LegalIssues] Re: Arrest records, et al.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cadenas_sd
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:20 AM
> > > And, for that matter, who's going to pay the innocently arrested
> > > for his loss of income?
> >
> > First of all, no person is guaranteed any standard of income.
>
> Wrong. You promised him a standard of income in return for his work.
He did? When?
You seem to have ignored the significance of the word "guaranteed"
(Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of people are only promised
renumeration for work they have done).
> You also, as you stated just a few minutes ago, promised him
> to protect his livelihood.
And this is where the cost issue becomes significant. You have already
suggested that employers should be obligated, on their own dime, to
investigate accusations of wrongdoing by their employees despite having
nothing to do with the circumstances of the wrongdoing.
But that begs the question: what benefit accrues to the employees that don't
impose additional "arrest investigation" costs on the business? Should
their employment be jeopardized as a result of that arrest? How about a
bonus for those who manage not to get arrested? Or nifty printing press in
the basement churning out cash.
Back to the Kum Bay Yah circle, methinks!
> > Why should I as the employer be responsible for someone els's
> > misfortune. I'm doubly innocent.
>
> a) because you promised to do so.
Ah, that old confusion of "employment at will".
Cadenas, there is no possible way that "at will" employment is even vaguely
compatible with your assertion above!
> b) because you are actively contributing to aggravating the
> misfortune.
Well, only in the case of the arrestee being fired. In the case of someone
being not hired, all you would be doing is NOT actively contribution to
mitigating the misfortune, which is rather different (although I fully
expect that those who only think in binary logic will get confused by that).
And that's why leeway is essential (and, in fact, explicitly noted in Leigha
Fleming's post that got you all riled up).
> > In addition, I am the one creating the wealth of the
> nation. I enable
> > people to work and earn a living at some standard or another.
>
> Spare me the ideological rhetoric, please. It's got nothing
> to do with the topic in the first place.
No more, and no less, than Wiseman's drivel about how getting arrested
killed his dog (or whatever), yet with the advantage that's only two
sentences and not paragraphs of melodramatic crud!
Meanwhile, I think we get it that:
* You don't like the concept of "at will" employment.
* You don't like the concept of corporations having rights.
* You believe that there are _significant_ numbers of people arrested for no
fault of their own.
I think, on the other hand, that you *don't* get:
* That the problem ultimately lies with our litigation system, where the
juries routinely award staggering sums of money (and therefore German,
Canadian and Australian examples aren't directly relevant).
If you were truly interest in a fair system (as opposed to your approach,
which seems a lot like "stick it to the Man"), you'd realize that if you
were going to protect the employees job -- and thus income -- pending
investigation (by _someone_), you'd also morally have to protect the
employer's income, and compensate the employer for the expenses (or the
consequences, if you get it wrong) of determining that the arrest is not
going to expose the employer to lawsuits.
And that's non-trivial, not to mention entirely at odds with our social and
criminal justice system.
Malc.
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posted by Annja Sue at
11:13 AM
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