Re: [BDSM-LegalIssues] Re: Arrested, ALL charges dismissed, career ruined WAS: You did, didn't you,
On 1/8/08 3:29 PM, "Vicki" <vicki@rjhg.com> wrote:
> At 11:54 AM 1/8/2008, cadenas_sd wrote:
>> --- In BDSM-LegalIssues@
>>>
>>> You are conflating two uses of the word "evidence". One is the criminal
>>> justice sense, where it is part of the process of establishing legal
>> guilt
>>> or innocense.
>>>
>>> The other is the plain English language one, in which it means
>> "suggestive"
>>> or "indicative"
>>>
>>> Like it or not, the fact that the principal got arrested is
>>> EVIDENCE. It is not, of course, PROOF.
>>
>> Um, no. You are making up a second definition where none exists.
>> Evidence in the judicial sense is the same as evidence in every other
>> sense: indicative or suggestive, as you put it.
>>
>> You are glossing over the far more critical aspect: what it is
>> evidence of. Nobody will deny that the fact that the principal has
>> been arrested is valid evidence that at some point something happened
>> that led to that arrest.
>>
>> But it is NOT evidence of *wrongdoing*
>> the "something" was that happened.
>
>
> That someone got arrested is not evidence of ANY wrongdoing on the
> part of the person arrested. If it were then why bother with collecting
> evidence.
>
> An arrest is at best evidence that the person placing another "under arrest"
>
> A..) believes that wrongdoing has occurred and
> the person arrested is the culprit or one of.
> B.) is corrupt
>
> That is ALL it means. Police in particular have
> many internal rules and or court decisions
> as to what things the police must have or
> discover for what is referred to as "probable cause"
> to make an arrest.
>
> Definition of evidence from m-w.com (a rather well respected dictionary)
>
> a: an outward sign
> arrest is an outward sign that someone
> believes. Not that wrongdoing happened but only
> that someone believes that it did.
>
> b: something that furnishes proof
> arrest is something that furnishes proof that
> A. someone sincerely believes that wrongdoing has occurred
> B. someone is corrupt.
>
> So the fact that someone is arrested is proof
> only that someone is arrested. It is not possible for
> the arrest to be proof of wrongdoing or even evidence of wrongdoing.
>
> If the person were to sue for false arrest the
> arrest record would be proof that they were arrested
> and as such had standing to sue for false
> arrest. It is not evidence of the falsehood or truth of the
> arrest. It is only proof that an arrest did
> happen to that person. Still no evidence of wrongdoing.
>
>
> Now for amusement lets go back to the
> beginning. Person A gets arrested and released in a matter of
> hours. The actual culprit was arrested and
> confesses to the crime for which Person A was arrested.
>
> Company checks arrest records looking for matches
> and finds Person A and fires him/her. Do you
> think this should be so. Discuss.
>
> -Vicki-
>
> ------------
> ------------
> Entry:
> 1ev·i·dence
> Listen to the pronunciation of 1evidence
>
> Pronunciation:
> \ e-v -d n(t)s, -v - den(t)s\
> Function:
> noun
> Date:
> 14th century
> 1 a: an outward sign :
> <http://m-w.com/
> b: something that furnishes proof :
> <http://m-w.com/
> specifically : something legally submitted to a
> tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter2: one
> who bears witness; especially : one who
> voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for
> the prosecution against his accomplices
>
> Main Entry:
> 2evidence
> Function:
> transitive verb
> Inflected Form(s):
> evidenced; evidenc·ing
> Date:
> circa 1610
> : to offer evidence of :
> <http://m-w.com/
> <http://m-w.com/
> synonyms see <http://m-w.com/
>
>
Oxford American Dictionary
evidence |ˈevədəns|
noun
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or
proposition is true or valid : the study finds little evidence of overt
discrimination.
• Law information given personally, drawn from a document, or in the form of
material objects, tending or used to establish facts in a legal
investigation or admissible as testimony in court : without evidence, they
can't bring a charge.
• signs; indications : there was no obvious evidence of a break-in.
verb [ trans. ] (usu. be evidenced)
be or show evidence of : that it has been populated from prehistoric times
is evidenced by the remains of Neolithic buildings.
PHRASES
give evidence Law give information and answer questions formally and in
person in court or at an inquiry.
in evidence noticeable; conspicuous : his dramatic flair is still very much
in evidence.
turn state's (or Brit. King's or Queen's) evidence Law (of a criminal) give
information in court against one's partners in order to receive a less
severe punishment oneself.
ORIGIN Middle English : via Old French from Latin evidentia, from evident-
'obvious to the eye or mind' (see evident ).
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posted by Annja Sue at
7:41 PM
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