Re: [BDSM-LegalIssues] Re: New book -- good but disturbing
Jay,
Religions organizations don't have to comply with much of any hiring laws. They can limit hiring to only followers of that particular religion if they so choose, and have any type of moral turpitude clauses in their hiring contracts they wish. (I was on the governing council of a large church once upon a time, and I was surprised at some of the things in the hiring contracts. That's when I was told that religious organizations are pretty much excepted from federal hiring statutes.
I think you're overdoing it with giving Leigha a hard time here.
Domina
> So the essence of your reply is: Given that Maryland is an "at
> will" state (as are the employees at your company) this completely
> justifies your firing a *completely factually innocent* person (and
> also your not re-hiring them) on the sole basis of their having
> been arrested.
>
> Scenario: the police arrest an employee of yours for murder. Upon
> learning of his arrest, you immediately fire him. Within 48 hours,
> subsequent police investigation conclusively proves that "some
> other dude" did the murder. Employee is promply released and all
> charges against him are dropped. The police even informally
> apologize for all he was put through. However, said employee is
> still out of a job, and you are perfectly fine with this because,
> hey, Maryland is an "at will" state.
>
> After all, to have been arrested is, by your explicitly stated
> standards, to have a "history" and therefore, again by your
> explicitly stated standards, to be a potential liability. *Actual
> innocence* (a troublesome nuisance, I know) is a complete non-issue
> for you.
>
> Given the above, the people that your volunteer organization (NCSF)
> has *defended* would *not* be hired by, or would be fired from,
> your company -- and your own words conclusively demonstrate that
> you're completely at peace with that because hey, it's an at-will
> situation so things are all perfectly fine, don'tcha know.
>
> In brief, if an action is legal, then said action is also just
> perfectly peachy. No problem here.
>
> Given that you would not hire people that your volunteer
> organization (NCSF) has defended, and that you have *repeatedly*
> defended and justified your practice, your continued association
> with both your company and with NCSF is completely untenable.
>
> From which one will you be resigning forthwith?
>
> Best,
>
> Jay
>
> p.s. do I have your permission to forward your posts in this thread
> to Susan Wright?
>
> --- In BDSM-LegalIssues@
> <leigha@...> wrote:
>
>>
>> Jay-
>>
>> Maryland is an employment at will state. The employees where I
>> work
>>
> are not unionized and are not covered by any type of contract
>
>> or collective bargaining agreement. As such, the only protections
>>
> they have in either the hiring process or their jobs are the laws
>
>> that cover employees (including me by the way) from discrimination
>>
> based on gender, age, disability, religion, race, nationality
>
>> and military service in some cases, etc. Maryland does not have
>>
> laws protecting people based on arrest or conviction records or for
>
>> that matter based on sexual orientation.
>>
>> If the owner of the company I work for decides he doesn't like
>>
> someone's personality, it's completely legal for him to fire that
>
>> employee. If he feels like an employee's (or potential employee's)
>>
> arrest/conviction record would be disruptive to his business or
>
>> expose the company to liability, it's completely legal for that
>>
> person to be fired.
>
>> Again, Maryland is an employment at will state and employees don't
>>
> have recourse if they're terminated for a reason that falls
>
>> outside of those protected discrimination classes. The
>> unemployment
>>
> system of course covers them but private employers aren't
>
>> obligated to hire or maintain employment for people who don't fit
>>
> inside their corporate framework (barring for reasons of
>
>> discrimination covered by the law.)
>>
>> Employees or potential employees with substance abuse or violent
>>
> histories are an unacceptable risk for most employers, including
>
>> mine. And, once again I'll note, the background checks the company
>>
> I work for conducts are authorized in writing by the employees
>
>> before they are ever done.
>>
>> For whatever it's worth- I work for a company owned by people of a
>>
> minority religious faith, and 60%+ of our employees are African
>
>> American. I'm out in my office about my sexual orientation and
>>
> about my work with and for NCSF. I love the place I work.
>
>>
>> -Leigha
>>
>>
>>> Wow. Freakin' wow. There it is, in black and white for all to
>>>
> see.
>>> Um, let me guess. As a matter of corporate policy, you do, of
>>> course, routinely re-hire those fired employees, with full back
>>>
> pay
>>> and benefits, who have been arrested for violent felonies if
>>> they subsequently have their original charges dropped, or
>>> reduced to a non-
>>> violent felony, or reduced to a misdemeanor, or acquitted,
>>>
> right?
>>> Your company has had such a "rehire and restore" policy for
>>>
> years,
>>> right?
>>> The alternative suggests that a person who is *completely
>>>
> factually
>>> innocent* of such a charge nonetheless summarily loses their
>>> job with
>>> your company with no recourse (ah, the joys of "at will"
>>> employment),
>>> and further suggests that you are just fine with that. After
>>> all, "can't take a chance" right?
>>>
>>>> I'm surprised you feel like my volunteer work with and for
>>>> NCSF
>>>>
> is
>
>>> relevant in this matter at all.
>>>
>>>> Leigha
>>> I'm not surprised, not at all, that you're surprised. Jay
>>
>
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posted by Annja Sue at
2:59 PM
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