Re: [BDSM-LegalIssues] Re: New book -- good but disturbing
I have never responded to a thread in this group before. I am not any type
of legal scholar or in the legal field at all. I am just a small business
owner who has, in the past, gotten into trouble and did my time, then was
discriminated against by an employee of the federal government while on
supervised release. I asked for help from the NCSF and was put off then
rejected any help. And yes, I was discriminated BECAUSE of my open BDSM
lifestyle, I have it in witting from the federal employee. So while I fully
support the ideals of the NCSF, in my personal experience they only help if
it also helps with their public image.
I also will chime in on the hiring discrimination issue. When I got out of
prison, I was discriminated against at every turn by employers. My crime was
a non-violent, drug crime. In the middle management of transporting
marijuana. I never stole anything, I never hurt anybody, I never committed
an act of violence, but I was denied jobs ranging from convenience store
clerk to tow truck driver to hair salon manager because of the conviction. I
have a ton of management experience, a degree and never did anything wrong
before or after this. I have been barred from ever being able to work for
pretty much any well paying job because of what I did. In my experience it
doesn't matter what you did, or how it balances out against the rest of your
life, as soon as you are "tainted" by any type of legal troubles you are
persona non-grata with 90% of America, whether you are convicted or not. And
unless you have a sensational case, you also will be shunned by the
Alt-lifestyle community as well.
Luckily, I had a family who loves me and was able to help me start a video
store business in a very small town where I was able to start a whole new
life. The vast majority of people who could rehabilitate themselves, or were
innocent to begin with, are doomed to minimum wage, horrible jobs, or will
go back to the same actions that got them into trouble in the first place
because there is no other choice to support themselves. The organizations
that are supposed to help have no money to do so, or are little more than
meeting place to connect with others who are going to get back into trouble
again and encourage you to do so as well.
As you all can tell, I am very bitter about this even a couple years after
being done with all of it. I gave up trying to see if a lawyer or an
organization like the NCSF would help because, as has been pointed out by
Leigha, no one cares until it happens to them.
I have been open and honest about my lifestyle, then persecuted for it. I
have been open and honest about my past transgressions and been ignored and
shunned for it. I stay on this list to keep up with the lifestyle legal
issues in the hopes that one day there will be legal protections for people
like me, but it probably won't happen in my life.
I'm done bitching, sorry for the interruption.
Daniel
-------Original Message-----
From: cadenas_sd
Date: 1/2/2008 2:30:29 PM
To: BDSM-LegalIssues@
Subject: [BDSM-LegalIssues] Re: New book -- good but disturbing
--- In BDSM-LegalIssues@
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cadenas_sd
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:19 PM
>
> > What is left is you *defending* these policies. And that may
> > have happened in the heat of the discussion.
>
> I'd point out that NO-ONE, not you, and not Wiseman, has offered
> much of an alternative.
How about just simply saying "my job is to enforce these policies even
though I disagree with them" rather than emphatically stating that she
advocates these policies.
> > Leigha, can you state unequivocally "I believe it is
> > inappropriate for employers to use any arrest for an
> > allegation of a sexual offense to make personnel decisions
> > before a trial has been completed?"
>
> Cadenas, can _you_ state unequivocally "I believe that empoyers
> should be required to retain an employee charged with the most
> opprobrius of crimes for as long as it takes to fully adjudicate
> such charges no matter what publicity may occur"?
You are building a straw man here. I asked "use any arrest to make a
decision". How did you arrive here at "required to retain" is a
mystery to me. Nobody asked for that! The point is simply that an
arrest is not evidence of wrongdoing and should not be a factor in the
decision.
> > Can you state unequivocally that you will work towards law
> > changes that will outlaw using any arrest record for sexual
> > offenses for personnel decisions?
>
> That's just offensive, Cadenas. Why should _anyone_ agree to "work
> towards" anything just because you want them to?
How about, because that's why the NCSF exists?
From the NCSF Mission statement:
>>
The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom is a national organization
committed to creating a political, legal, and social environment in
the United States that advances equal rights of consenting adults who
practice forms of alternative sexual expression.
<<
> > Can you state unequivocally, regardless of your employer's
> > actual policies, that the NCSF, and you personally, believe
> > that the arrest records for the following people should not
> > be used for any personnel
> > decisions:
> >
> > - The San Diego Six
> > - Genarlow Wilson
> > - Lawrence and Garner (of Lawrence v Texas)
>
> If you'd pause your rush to (mis-)judgment, maybe you'd notice that
> perhaps hiring (say) one of the SD Six as a child care specialist in
> a conservative community may not make good commercial sense, never
> mind the social justice issue?
Your viewpoint is certainly legitimate, and I don't have a problem
with it since you are, as far as I know, not affiliated with the NCSF.
But in the case of Leigha, that's exactly the whole point of the
matter! The NCSF claims to work towards eliminating exactly that kind
of "commercial-
until I read her comments here.
Again, from the NCSF Mission statement:
>>
The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom is a national organization
committed to creating a political, legal, and social environment in
the United States that advances equal rights of consenting adults who
practice forms of alternative sexual expression.
<<
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posted by Annja Sue at
5:10 PM
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