RE: [BDSM-LegalIssues] Re: New book -- good but disturbing
At 10:34 AM 1/2/2008, Malcolm Weir wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cadenas_sd
(snip)
> > Can you state unequivocally that you will work towards law
> > changes that will outlaw using any arrest record for sexual
> > offenses for personnel decisions?
>
>That's just offensive, Cadenas. Why should _anyone_ agree to "work towards"
>anything just because you want them to?
>
>You are imposing your own priorities on someone else.
Government does this all the time. Why can't Cadenas? And unlike
both government
and "lobbyists" Cadenas was nice enough to ask.
>If you'd pause your rush to (mis-)judgment, maybe you'd notice that perhaps
>hiring (say) one of the SD Six as a child care specialist in a conservative
>community may not make good commercial sense, never mind the social justice
>issue?
For some silly reason I thought the point of this discussion was
"not hiring innocent people that have been arrested and released".
It's true that Cadenas was arguing for the more complicated case of
arrested and
much later acquitted. But lets get back to the topic of firing people
that have been
"arrested" and released. What is the NCSF position on that. I would
guess none as it is
outside of what they claim to be doing. Now if the arrest and release was for
a sex crime that they do work to defend against would they get involved
since the person was released (having been found during a short investigation
to be innocent of the supposed crime).
I would guess that they would not as the person was released so needed no
support proving their innocence.
Now what happens when their employer fires them for being "arrested". Hmmmmm.
For humans it is a bit if a conundrum. NCSF does say it gets
involved if they were
fired for say BDSM behaviour but does not for being fired for being arrested
even though it is for BDSM Behaviour? I would think yes they would because
their web site mission is
"
The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom is a national organization
committed to creating a political, legal, and social environment in
the United States that advances equal rights of consenting adults who
practice forms of alternative sexual expression. NCSF is primarily
focused on the rights of consenting adults in the SM-leather-fetish,
swing, and polyamory communities, who often face discrimination
because of their sexual expression. http://ncsfreedom.
"
So though the NCSF might not take a position on hiring discrimination
based on "arrest and release" they
most certainly should take a position on hiring discrimination based
on arrest and release for alternative sexual expression.
Now their mission statement does say "equal rights" so one might
infer that since employers like the one
discussed here will fire ANYONE who has been arrested that there is
no inequality in the practice so
even though the person was arrested and released for some sexual
expression the NCSF does
not need to take a position.
>Regardless of the personal integrity any of the Six themselves, if
>one is marketing to a conservative base, the publicity attached to having
>someone publicly associated with being arrested for a contraversial act
>makes for additional business cost over someone who doesn't.
So someone who is publicly associated with being gay should be hired?
It is controversial and it is an additional business cost if the business is
marketing to a conservative base.
(oops now I am wandering away from the thread main point :)
>Is that just? Of course not... But business is not about justice. In
>another universe, I personally think it should be, but making that change
>means dumping "capitalism" in favor of something else, and I don't know of a
>"something else" that doesn't suck in other wise.
But you do support the anti-discrimination laws that are currently in
force? So
Government is already forcing companies to be more "just " in the view of those
that support the current anti-discrimination laws. Why not add another special
class?
> > I certainly hope you can answer each of these questions with
> > a single unqualified "Yes" - and if you do, my faith in the
> > NCSF would be restored.
>
>Sad to say, the NCSF is not really what many think it is.
>(snip)
>But that's fine. You can start your own organization, and devote your own
>time and money towards an alternative.
Not only that but Cadenas and others can stop sending money to NCSF and put it
in their own organization where it will do the work THEY want it
to. This is why
I support social programs in private hands and STRONGLY oppose social programs
in government hands. In one I get to choose. In the other the
single organization,
currently believed to be "evil" republicans and the shrub for admin,
gets to choose.
How is that a choice? Oh wait it is now the "good" Democrats and the shrub.
Again I ask. How is that a choice???
(Darn wandered way off topic. :)
-Vicki-
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posted by Annja Sue at
1:05 PM
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